PPC Hero: How did you get started in PPC?

Brad: It’s a very long story; but I’ll try to be brief. I use to work in the mental health/mental retardation industry helping people to become productive members of society; including transitioning people from institution life to community living programs. While its a rewarding industry; its also a burnout one as there’s only so many hours you can spend inside an institution. Eventually I quit and had no idea what I was going to do.

Then I found this thing called ‘affiliate marketing’. It seemed so easy. Drive traffic and make money. I already knew site design; so I gave it a try and it worked well (and it was easy in the 90s). Before I knew it Overture launched, and it gave me an opportunity to be on a page twice. Then AdWords launched, and it gave me an opportunity to be on another search engine multiple times; and I started working on blending SEO and PPC, increasing my conversion rates, and all the good stuff that comes with being a good marketer.

My marketing life spiraled out of control as other companies wanted me to run their accounts so after telling them no for years, I finally created an agency, then we sold another agency a few years later; and yet more happened –  and I’ve been happily working on paid search ever since.

PPC Hero: What is your favorite paid search topic?

Brad: I enjoy testing. It is by far my favorite topic and favorite (work) activity.

Testing ads, landing pages, keywords, SEO + PPC blending, Facebook pages, Twitter traffic, videos, etc is just fun for me. The hard part is usually digging through the analytics for insights; but when you find a new insight or visitor flow, and of course, more conversions it just makes me happy.

PPC Hero: Why were you interested in speaking on the Remarketing panel? What is it about this topic that interests you?

Brad: Remarketing is not just about paid search. You work hard to get visitors through social, SEO, PPC, email, etc. Remarketing might only show in ad slots across the web; but the way you build and market your lists can be fascinating based upon both how they got to your site and where they went on your site.

For example, if someone came through an email list of current customers then your ads will focus on retention and upsells. If someone came through Twitter, then you can focus on followers, social sharing, and a soft conversion like email signup into an autoresponder. You can segment and market your remarketing lists in so many ways that it can be a discipline unto itself.

I also like to share, and wrote an article about how I initially setup our own remarketing lists where you can see some of the thought process about website segmentation.

PPC Hero: You will be presenting a session on Quality Score.  Can you give us a sneak peek at what this session will include?

Brad: I’m going to talk about how to find opportunities for improving Quality Score and improving it once you find those weak areas.

I find that most intermediate to expert users understand how Quality Score is calculated so while I might cover the factor basics – it’ll be quick. I do find that many people still look through every single keyword and analyze every keyword’s Quality Score. That’s a waste of time.  If you have an account of 10,000 or 1 million keywords, it is not worth your time looking through every keyword. I’m going to demonstrate a technique for taking even a huge account and finding where you should start to optimize your quality score.

It is recommended you understand pivot tables for this session (they are easy once you work with them). If you don’t know what they are, see this Microsoft learning series; they will change the way you think about what’s possible with data.

PPC Hero: Why are you excited to speak at and attend Hero Conf?

Brad: The networking opportunities. I communicate with many people via email, Twitter, and Google+. However, that interaction is never the same as seeing someone in person.

I also expect to pick up a few tips that I can go home and implement.  A couple days of networking plus learning usually means more conversions in the long run; and after all, isn’t that why were all involved in paid search?

I’m looking forward to seeing everyone there!

–

Brad Geddes is the founder of Certified Knowledge, an online paid search training and toolset provider.

He is the author of Advanced Google AdWords, the most advanced book ever written about Google’s advertising program. Brad is one of the first Google Advertising Professionals and Microsoft adExcellence members. He is the first advanced AdWords Seminar Leader and works directly with Google to train companies on Google AdWords. He has written extensively about internet marketing for more than a decade.

Brad has worked with companies who manage tens of thousands of small PPC accounts and other companies who spend millions on marketing each year. His experience ranges from owning his own agency, to working for a boutique agency, to managing programs that were official resellers of Google and Yahoo. Some brands he has worked with include: Amazon, Yahoo, RH Donnelley, Business.com, World Directories, Encyclopedia Britannica, and Red Lobster.

One of his trademarks has been demystifying the complicated aspects of SEO, PPC, and Internet advertising. Not one to hold secrets, Brad prefers to educate his readers on the various aspects of crafting successful marketing campaigns to ensure the success for all parties involved. Follow Brad on Twitter @bgtheory.

Sponsorships are still available. Download the Sponsors packet here!

This week we would also like to share an interview with Joanna Lord, the Director of Customer Acquisition & Engagement at SEOmoz.  Joanna will be speaking about Conversion Rate Optimization as well as Retargeting at Hero Conf on April 16-17, 2012, in Indianapolis, IN.

PPC Hero: First, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Joanna: My name is Joanna Lord and I am the Director of Customer Acquisition and Retention at SEOmoz, a SEO software provider out of Seattle, WA. I spend my days wandering excel, consuming coffee, and wandering the web. My professional experience lies in paid search marketing, conversion rate optimization, and analytics. I’m most excited by start-ups and innovative thinkers that continue to push the limits of which we operate under. Some may say I tweet a little too much, but I just don’t know what that means. #dowhatyoulove

PPC Hero: You are known as a specialist in retargeting.  What is it about this subject that interests you so much?

Joanna: I’ve always been interested in persuasion. In fact my M.A. degree is in Online Media and Persuasion (kind of creepy I know). The last few years our industry has taken a sharp turn toward personalization and customizing the online experience. For me Retargeting is a great example of this in action. I’ve dabbled in a variety of paid channels but often the optimization is done on the 5% of people that stick around after finding your site, but Retargeting goes after the 95% that bounce.

It’s an entirely new adventure for us marketers, and I love testing out new channels. Retargeting also really embraces what is unique about your company. Your creative and landers can be more robust, more eye-catching, and less pushy. I love this, and I couldn’t be more excited about the future of this channel. I think we will see some really creative applications in 2012.

PPC Hero: Where do you see retargeting headed in the future?

Joanna: This year I think we can expect a few things.
1. The dashboards will only get better. We can expect vendors to build in more sequence retargeting capabilities – allowing us to serve ads to different audiences for the first month, then the second, etc. seamlessly. This will be a huge win for advertisers with less resources.

2. We will see some interesting developments on the Search Retargeting front. This subset of Retargeting has been pretty quiet recently. There are only two or three players in the space and with chaos around cookie laws, and Google implemented the Not Provided filter, it will be interesting to see how Search Retargeting develops – or if it stalls in 2012.

3. Lastly I think we will see more players in the space, and hopefully those players will be offering more small business offerings. The concept of Retargeting isn’t a difficult one, and the channel has matured. People get it now and there are a lot of questions on it from advertisers with limited budgets. I think we will find more and more players in the space trying to make a go at it. I’m super excited.

PPC Hero: You are also planning to speak about Conversion Rate Optimization at Hero Conf.  Why do you think this is an important topic to share with the audience?

Joanna: No matter where you spend your time –Inbound Marketing, Paid Search, etc., you need solid landing pages. Your landing pages need to be clean, concise, beautiful and trustworthy. Over the years we’ve seen the bar on landing pages be raised, and we are seeing this more and more and the social graph builds. It’s time to expect more from your landing pages around social sharing, engagement, secondary conversions, and so on and so forth.

Whether you work for yourself, have a small team, or operate in a team of dozens – you need to be continuously testing and improving that lander experience. I think now is the best time to get excited about it with easy-to-use tools, and more resources available than ever before.

PPC Hero: What are you looking forward to the most at Hero Conf?

Joanna: For years I’ve wanted to attend a PPC-focused conference, and here it is! I am super excited to sit in on sessions and meet other PPC-obsessed people. I think right now there is so much cool stuff out there for paid marketers and I can’t wait for the swapping of war stories. The line-up looks top-notch and I think we are all in for a treat with this one.

If you are interested in being one of Hero Conf’s sponsors, please visit here.

PPC Hero: How did you get started in PPC, and how long have you been working in this industry?

Matthew: Shortly after I graduated from college in 2007 I was hired at a web design firm as an entry level search engine marketing associate.  I helped with SEO and PPC but became very interested and fascinated with the PPC side.  After a couple of months I took over some of my own accounts and really tried to familiarize and engrain myself more into the industry.  I started blogging, actively participating in Twitter and soaking up all the information I could.  Over my almost 5 years in the industry I’ve managed over 70 accounts for both lead generation and ecommerce campaigns.

PPC Hero: What was the idea behind starting PPC Chat?

Matthew: So much great information is shared on Twitter every day to the point where I use Twitter as my primary source of PPC news and insight.  The problem, though, was that as PPCers we really didn’t have a central community where everyone could interact.  I saw other Twitter chats such as #seochat and #blogchat that created a community and I wanted to do the same thing.  I put some feelers out to see if anyone would be interested in a weekly PPC chat and the overwhelming response was “yes!”  Piggybacking off #seochat I came up with the hashtag #ppcchat for people to follow.  After a couple of night sessions the chat was moved to Tuesdays at 12 PM EST to accommodate more people.  After a few weeks people started using the hashtag to share PPC related news and ask questions to others.  The PPC community has really embraced PPC Chat to make it what it is today.

PPC Hero: At Hero Conf, you will be speaking on the Account Structure panel.  Why is this topic of interest to you?

Matthew: A sound account structure is the basis of how well a PPC campaign will perform.  It is imperative that keywords utilize correct match types and be segmented into tightly themed ad groups.  The text ads will be that much more relevant to searchers and improve click-thru-rate and hopefully conversion rates and return on ad spend while decreasing cost per conversion.  Additionally, a well crafted account structure will help you to make better use of ad extensions by using in the most appropriate campaigns.  Finally, aside from segmentation it is necessary to review every campaign’s individual settings so you are not wasting money and/or hurting the effectiveness of the account.

PPC Hero: You also are planning to present a session called “Proving the Value of PPC through Conversion Tracking.”  Why do you feel this is an important session to bring to Hero Conf?

Matthew: When I first started out I didn’t fully understand the importance of conversion tracking.  Of course I tracked conversions and reported on conversion metrics, but I didn’t give this tracking the attention it deserved.  I soon realized things needed to change.  At the time I was primarily working with lead generation clients.  I updated and created new conversions to track each specific lead; whether it was a whitepaper download or a contact us form submission.  I segmented these conversions for clients and made it a priority to showcase top performing keywords, ad groups, campaigns and text ads.  I even went so far as to ask if I could be CC’d on all form submissions.  I had clients where I was writing down all PPC leads on a spreadsheet and consistently asking what was happening to these leads.  Today I work with many ecommerce clients where revenue is tracked down to the keyword level and we are able to see the purchased products to better optimize campaigns and work to expand them.  Sometimes it isn’t enough to get the conversion; you must emphasize the importance of this metric to prove the value of PPC.

PPC Hero: What are you looking forward to the most at Hero Conf?

Matthew: I’m most excited to meet members of PPC Chat in person and listen to their insight first hand.  Over the last couple of years I’ve interacted with these people online and read their blogs, but have not been able to speak in person.  With this conference so much PPC knowledge is being congregated in one place!

PPC Hero: Are there any speakers or sessions you are especially excited to hear at the conference?

Matthew: I’m definitely looking forward to hearing Brad Geddes speak as he consistently puts out great, thought provoking material.  Other speakers I’m excited to hear are Joe Kerschbaum, John Lee, Joanna Lord and Melissa Mackey, but really every speaker at this conference will be presenting great material!

If you are interested in sponsoring Hero Conf, check out our sponsor packet.

PPC Hero: Welcome to this exclusive twitter interview with Marc Poirier, Co-Founder and CMO of Acquisio. Hero Conf is proud to have Acquisio as our Platinum Sponsor. It’s a pleasure to have you join us today, Marc!

Marc: The pleasure is all mine, this is such a cool way to do an interview, hopefully I can keep up.

PPC Hero: To begin with, tell us a bit about your background & experience in paid search.

Marc: Sure, I guess I started using SEO in 1997 but in those days it did not exactly mean the same thing it does now. It was MUCH easier to succeed back then than it is now. Paid search started for me in 2002. While I worked on my own affiliate marketing ventures, I found GOTO to be excellent for generating additional volume.
I guess I was on board with performance marketing very early on.

PPC Hero: That must have been interesting seeing the industry develop over the past several years.

Marc: It has been a great ride, the fun part is seeing some of the things I knew had to happen become reality. Things like display RTB for example.

PPC Hero: So how did Acquisio get started as a company?

Marc: The company was founded in 2003. We were originally an agency focused on SEO and paid search as well as web analytics. As we grew the business we found ourselves needing to provide better performance and better and more timely reports. So we started hiring more people which was a drain on our financial resources. It was very difficult to make any profits. In 2007 we decided to sell our agency & focus on making a platform to help agencies scale their paid search operations. The company has amassed quite a following, hundreds of agencies use our platform, representing more than 10k brands.

PPC Hero: What a great story. Could you tell us about the products Acquisio offers?

Marc: Acquisio completed the acquisition of ClickEquations in December, so there are 2 products: Acquisio and Click Equations. Acquisio is a complete performance marketing management suite designed specifically to help agencies scale their business. It covers 3 channels at the moment – Paid Search, Facebook Ads and RTB display. Tracking, Reporting, Automation, Editing.

ClickEquations product is hyper focused on paid search, and is aimed at professional SEM managers working for advertisers. I think CE is custom built for those who are looking for deeper insight and maximum ROI from their SEM campaigns. It features great tracking, excellent bid management, a powerful Excel plugin, and my faves: Keyword & Text Ad Zoom.

PPC Hero: Sounds excellent! What makes Acquisio unique from other management software?

Marc: Great question. I think we’re the only company in this space whose only goal is to make agencies more successful. As such, a significant amount of functionality in Acquisio is designed to scale the operations of an agency. For example, we offer self-serve reporting for clients through our white label agency extranet. Our clients think the quality and depth of reporting you will find in Acquisio is miles ahead of all our competitors. It has to be this way because for agencies, reporting to their clients on time every time is mission critical.

We also allow agencies to implement their own secret sauce by leveraging our business rule engine. It is an “if-then” framework that is extremely flexible – you can automate just about anything by using these rules. We spend a lot of time working with our clients to create, test and deploy rules to fit their specific needs. Our competitors usually create their recipe for bid management in a black box and put it out there for everyone to use.

I guess if you’re an agency and you’re out there looking for new business, you have to differentiate from the others You can’t win by implementing generic off-the-shelf bid management algorithm that everyone else is using. You need something better. With ClickEquations we’re adding more differentiators – better tracking, Excel plugin for reporting, Keyword & Ad Zoom.

PPC Hero: That all sounds great, it’s so true that differentiation is important. Is Acquisio or ClickEquations developing any new features or updates that you are excited about?

Marc: We are developing new features constantly, we release every 2 months. I’m really excited about the next few releases. I can tell you we’re working on integrating ClickEquations functionality into Acquisio. The rest is TOP SECRET!

PPC Hero: With Acquisio’s social media platform, have you noticed much change in the time since Google + was released?

Marc: As it relates to our FB ads integration, nothing has changed, we’re eager to see Google release social ads of course.

PPC Hero: Definitely! What would you suggest people should keep in mind when selecting a management software company?

Marc: You need to understand what your needs are and find the company that offers the best match for you. I mean the best match for those needs. There is a lot of great software out there. We focus on helping agencies scale their business. Any SEM agency should consider speaking with someone at Acquisio.

PPC Hero: As Hero Conf’s Platinum Sponsor, what are you looking forward to the most at Hero Conf?

Marc: We want to support initiatives like this one, we sponsor a lot of events & we’re very active on the conference circuit. I look forward to speaking there very much, especially that this is the first ever Hero Conf! It’s gonna be awesome! Plus I’ve never been to Indiana. How’s the fishing there this time of year?

PPC Hero: We are very excited you are coming! The fishing should be good, unless we get one of those April snowstorms!

Marc, thank you very much for joining us today and taking the time to share more about Acquisio & ClickEquations. We are delighted to have Acquisio as a Platinum sponsor, and are also looking forward to hearing you speak at Hero Conf, Marc!

Marc: It was fun, thanks for organizing this, I look forward to Hero Conf very much! Cheers!

PPC Hero: Hero Conf is April 16-17, 2012, in Indianapolis, IN.  Hero Conf is a PPC conference with exclusive content and an extended agenda.  To register or for more information, visit www.heroconf.com.

–

Marc Poirier is a professional Internet Marketer with more than a decade experience in the   Search industry. He is Co-Founder and Chief Marketing Officer of Acquisio where he leads all sales and marketing activities. He often speaks at events like SES, SMX, Ad:Tech, TFM&A and OMMA, and writes columns and articles for various publications, including Search Engine Watch, Visibility Magazine, SES Magazine, and the Acquisio blog, to name a few.

Prior to his position at Acquisio, he was founder and president at Canalytics, a boutique SEM and SEO agency which was widely regarded as one of the most active Google Analytics Authorized Consultants in the world. He also held various e-marketing management positions for technology and software companies that include Komunik – an email marketing software vendor, Cognicase – a Canadian leading IT consulting and systems integration firms, aside from being a strategic consultant at U.S. based marchFIRST.

Marc began his entrepreneurial career in 1996 while working on his Ph. D. in Cognitive Science. That’s when he co-founded Webaxis Alliance, an interactive agency that worked on major Canadian websites such as sympatico.ca and canada411.ca.

Whenever the opportunity arises, Marc loves to fish and is an amateur walleye fisherman who shares his passion on his blog.

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Working with room full of PPCers, I can tell you that we have an extraordinary group of people, each with a unique background. I can also tell you that with the exception of myself, no one in my office, current or past, has PPC training in the form of an Internet Marketing Degree. I am frequently asked if earning my degree was worth it and if I would recommend others go out and do the same. My default response is yes, it was worth it for me but if you can crack into the industry without it, go that route. Allow me to explain.

While working in the audio/visual industry, I decided I wanted to make a career change and jump into Internet Marketing. I’m far more passionate about computers and the Internet than I ever have been about speakers and music. Learning to program didn’t sound like fun to me and I was very interested in the marketing side of the web. I had been speaking with several of my friends in advertising, specifically folks who worked at web shops. After speaking with some industry insiders, I decided to give it a shot. I was single at the time and lived close enough to Chicago, an Internet Marketing hub, that a move to the big city would have been easy. The trouble is, even with good referrals from within some of the major agencies in Chicago, my experience didn’t match up to what companies were looking for. I had very good grades through school, won my school’s business plan competition along with a host of other individual awards (two specific to marketing), heck I even had perfect attendance through college. What I didn’t have was any experience with advertising or the Internet. My 4 years of experience since those collegiate accolades had nothing to do with the industry I intended on entering. I had a few conversations/interviews with several agencies but no offers came.

After that experience, I tucked my tail and went back to doing what I know. About a year later, I got an email from my alumni network at Full Sail, where I earned my undergraduate degrees. The email was announcing a new Graduate Degree in Internet Marketing. I knew right away that I was going to do it but took a couple months to really commit. I you aren’t familiar with Full Sail, the school is amazing but it’s also expensive. They’re highly respected in their appropriate creative and technical industries but I’ve found they aren’t particularly respected in the general business world. I’d imagine this hurt me upon my initial attempt to crack the industry. It can be hard to be taken seriously when your school is named after a boat sailing term, even with outstanding educational accolades. The price and the reputation were the main things holding me back but in the end I felt like this would give me the best opportunity to work in the industry I wanted to so I enrolled.

The curriculum was outstanding. While I don’t have a basis for comparison, I would venture to say you won’t find a better program anywhere else. It’s 100% focused on Internet Marketing and covers things from an advanced perspective. The curriculum is challenging and the capstone project is one that truly takes dedication and commitment to complete and pairs you with an actual company to build your marketing plan around. When I entered the workforce, I felt 100% comfortable in my theory and process, I just needed to know how to actually push the buttons and make the interface do what my brain wanted it to. This is the trickiest part of learning something like PPC or SEO online; you actually need a real life company to follow-through on the teachings. The resources of their capstone company limit what you can actually test during the program. I happened to be in that boat so part of my capstone was purely theoretical.

When I got to Hanapin I was extremely prepared. I did my training in half the time of my peers and hit the ground running with my own accounts and side projects almost immediately. The learning curve is steep here but I was as prepared for this job as any other I have started. I didn’t have the first day nerves that typically come with a new position. I was ready.

Hanapin Marketing was my #1 target company. I started the interview process about six months before graduating but was not given an opportunity to come down and interview in person until just a couple months prior to graduating. I received my offer several weeks before my graduation date. The takeaway from this is that my degree enabled me to achieve my target job and did so without a lag in employment or a gap between school and work. I don’t think I’d be sitting here in a leadership role at Hanapin Marketing or writing for PPC Hero without it. This is why I feel strongly that the degree was worth it to me. I also feel confident that had I not accepted this position, I would have had many opportunities elsewhere.

Every classmate I keep in contact with has a great job in the industry and several are running their own agencies or added Internet services to their existing offerings. Some of my classmates had their degrees paid for by their current employers to add an additional skill set to their companies. All of my graduating peers were extremely intelligent. The one thing I’ll say is that the attrition rate for graduates was high. I believe my class started with around 35 and only graduated around 12. I believe this to be a testament to the high performance of the folks who actually earn the degree. I finished with a 4.0 GPA and wasn’t even in the top 2 graduates.  All of my peers at graduation were extremely intelligent and driven. If your agency ever has a Full Sail grad apply, hire them.

In addition to having some really smart peers, the staff at Full Sail was amazing. The backgrounds of my professors were impressive. Most of them continue to freelance within the industry while teaching, which contradicts the adage “those who can’t do teach.” It was a pleasure learning from my teachers and being involved in intense learning for a year is going to blow away any training program you’ll get from a company. My company training was outstanding but it was nowhere near as comprehensive as my education. And to be honest, it would be nearly impossible to replicate on the job. I was spending 30-40 hours a week on class work when in school. Most companies can’t afford to pay someone full time for a year just to learn.  The other advantage to Full Sail is that the coursework is online and accelerated, which meant I got to continue working my full time career while earning my degree and the sacrifice was only a year rather than two or more for most traditional graduate schools. It all ads up to a great experience and one that has been extremely rewarding for me personally.

So with all the great things I have to say about my education and what it has provided me, you’re probably wondering why I tell people to avoid it if they can crack the industry without it. The main reason is price. School is expensive and my student loans are weighing me down. My salary is such that it was worth it but without these loans, I’m sure I could be retiring a few years earlier than I will be. Even still, I’m ahead of where I was prior to the degree, both personally and financially.

I know with hard work and a degree in Internet Marketing, you can find a great job. I also think it’s possible to find a great job in the industry without it. It’s probably harder to do so now than in the past. I mean, 10 years ago the applicant pool for someone with 3-5 years of AdWords experience was zero. With the right drive and a business or marketing background, it was easier to sell yourself into the industry, even just five years ago. I know several folks who did so back in the early days with no relevant experience whatsoever, and at really great agencies to boot.

Today, the applicant pool is much more saturated. With that said, finding directly experienced local talent here in Bloomington, IN is still a challenge. We tend to hire smart folks with backgrounds in traditional marketing or recent graduates with degrees in marketing or related fields. If you fit that mold, my recommendation is to go after a position in the industry before you commit to a year or more of school and the high cost of admission. Try to find an agency with an outstanding training program if you can and one that typically hires recent graduates. If you find you aren’t learning at the pace you’d like, you can always enroll in a program while working in your new position. Some companies might even pay for it through tuition reimbursement down the road.

If you do get a position without the degree, even if you don’t land your dream job in your first attempt, you’ll be working in the industry and gaining valuable experience without incurring all the extra cost of school to get the same result, a job. I think for someone like me, with a background that wasn’t related to business or marketing at all, I needed the degree to jump-start my career and if you’re in that boat, I highly recommend Full Sail’s degree programs (both undergrad and graduate). If you’ve got the background to hit the ground running and earn a position without the education, you’ll be better served to make an appropriate choice by letting your experience guide your future decisions. Remember, the point of going to school for most people is to get a job. If you can get that same job without it, what’s holding you back? If a degree is what you seek, know that mine has been tremendous for my career and that I can’t recommend Full Sail enough.

[EDIT: Comments that include profanity, link dropping, or general trolling will be deleted. Enjoy the article and keep it clean in the comments.]

Thank you to everyone who participated in this month’s Heroview – real-time discussions with PPC industry experts via Twitter.  Stay tuned for next month’s Heroview!

June 17, 2011

PPC Hero: Welcome to Heroview! To get started, tell me a little about yourself. How long have you been working with PPC?

Melissa: I’ve been doing PPC since 2002, when Adwords first launched; first in house and now with @fluencymedia. I’m “old school PPC.”

PPCHero: That’s great – agency and internal experience really makes a great PPCer! So today we’re going to talk about two advanced areas of PPC: Adwords Campaign Experiments (ACE), and the display network.

Melissa: 2 of my favorite topics!

PPC Hero: When do you use ACE? Is it better for campaigns that are fairly stable, or for campaigns that need a lot of work?

Melissa: I like to use ACE for both stable campaigns (to test new things) and troubled campaigns (to improve performance). That said, it’s most leveraged for campaigns that need quick triage, but also need good data to prove results.

PPC Hero: Could you give us a quick example of something you’d used ACE for in a stable campaign?

Melissa: I like to use ACE to add “crazy” keywords to a stable campaign, just to see if they might work. I’ll set the % low and watch it. You never know what might work for your account!

PPC Hero: Interesting! How about for a campaign that’s troubled?

Melissa: Lately, I’ve been using it for bid tests: trying lower or higher bids to see what happens with conversion rate. This can often show that lower bids don’t affect conversion rate, and therefore lead to a better cost/conv.

PPC Hero: How about for testing ad text? Do you recommend using ACE or putting ads on rotate for A/B testing?

Melissa: I usually do straight A/B ad tests, or A/A/A/A/B if I have a strong hero. I like to control things vs. letting G do it. But ACE also works well for ad testing, especially when you’re using CPA bids – you often get better data. And of course be sure to put ads on Rotate, always.

PPC Hero: Is there anything that ACE doesn’t test that you would like it to, such as demographic targeting and dayparting?

Melissa: I’d love to test campaign settings, like dayparting, networks, ad delivery, etc. but it’s not possible now. I’d especially like to experiment with the Search network on vs. off. Would be very insightful. Dayparting would be great too – to prove assumptions about what days & times work rather than guessing.

PPC Hero: That would be nice! Hopefully they’ll get on that soon.

Melissa: Agreed!

PPC Hero: Finally, what would be your advice to someone who has never used ACE before?

Melissa: Read the documentation carefully! It’s easy to misunderstand “experiment only” and “control only” and you can end up with lots of your keywords paused. Don’t ask how I know.  Anything that’s “control only” will go away when you “roll out changes fully.” Forewarned is forearmed.

PPC Hero: Great advice. Okay, let’s move on to the display network! In this post (httPPC Hero://ppche.ro/j65urc), you say that display isn’t for everyone. Can you elaborate on who shouldn’t use it?

Melissa: If you’re at all risk-tolerant, display may not be for you. It can work great, but does have risks. I meant “risk INtolerant.” (darn the fast fingers!)

PPC Hero: Ha ha, yes, important distinction

Melissa: If you don’t want to or can’t take the risk of getting a lot of non-converting traffic, you may not want to use Display. It also needs to be managed separate from search, so if you’re really busy, display may not be for you.

PPC Hero: Do you ever recommend creating display campaigns with only image/media ads, and no keywords?

Melissa: Sure! It can be a great way to cast a wider net for your campaign and get lots of branding impressions w/o the limitations that keywords can impose. And image ads can include rich media & animation, which is cool too.

PPC Hero: Interesting. How about exclusions? You suggest using exclusions in the display network, but do you also use managed placements to keep your traffic qualified?

Melissa: Absolutely. I often start without managed placements, then add the ones that perform well to managed placements. Or I’ll move those placements to their own campaign, and then exclude them on the original to avoid confusing G.

PPC Hero: Good thinking!

Melissa: I find it easier to learn which placements perform well, as opposed to guessing by starting out that way.

PPC Hero: Getting quickly back to media: do you have any advice for PPCers who want to do image ads but don’t have graphic designers?

Melissa: 3 words: Display Ad Builder httPPC Hero://bit.ly/iM7DKK. You can create your own image ads without a designer. Awesome! If you can get logos or images from your art dept. (or your client), even better. The Builder is easy to use and is a great tool for creating lots of different display ads to test.

PPC Hero: Very good point. Alright, let’s get onto our last question! You have a blog coming out soon that will share display network resources. Can we have a sneak peek at your favorites?

Melissa: Sure! Check out the post: httPPC Hero://bit.ly/fCYumh. One of the resources mentioned is the free ebook Customers Now by @szetela. Full of good tips. httPPC Hero://bit.ly/1UpdGU. I regularly refer to that book for new ideas, even though I use display a lot.

PPC Hero: Great! Can’t wait to read the full article. Well, that’s all we have for today! Does anyone have any questions for Melissa?

-@JARooney8423: have you tried the topics tab for the display network yet? what do you think?

-Melissa: @JARooney8423 Good question! Yes, we were part of the beta for that. I love it – we get really good results there.

-@Jessica_Cates: Is there any area of the DN that you find most people aren’t utilizing enough? Ex. topics, remarketing, etc.

-Melissa: @Jessica_Cates Remarketing, for sure – even I am barely using that yet. I think it’s tough to use b/c of the tagging, but is really* leveraged and should be a higher priority for advertisers than it is.

-@Hoffman8: To follow up on @Jessica_Cates question, which type is your favorite? For both leadgen & Ecommerce

-Melissa: @Hoffman8 Tough question! I’d say it depends: display can be hard to do for ecommerce, although it can be done for sure.

-@Jessica_Cates:   I can see that. I’m using it here and there with great results, it makes me sad if I don’t have access to add tags Thx.

-Melissa: @Hoffman8 I’m becoming a huge fan of Topics, as long as there are available topics that are relevant to your campaign.

-@JARooney8423: that can be a problem. do you know how often they add new topics (categories and subcategories)?

-Melissa: @Hoffman8 For leadgen, I like text ads best; especially for B to B. I think B to B searchers are immune to image ads.

-Melissa: @JARooney8423 Another great question! I don’t know – but will try to find out!

-@LisaSanner: have you had success with category targeting overlayed with placement targeting for DN?

-Melissa: @LisaSanner Not really – I’ve found that really limits the available impressions, so we don’t get much traffic. In other words, lots of work for not much payback.

-Melissa: You folks ask good questions!!

-@Hoffman8: I love Topics, too. I’ve had better luck using KW+Topics than just Topics, any thoughts?

-Melissa: @Hoffman8 Again I think it depends. Topics alone is too broad for some advertisers, for sure. Also depends on adv. goals. I.e. strict direct marketing goals vs. high impression & traffic goals, price of product/service, etc.

-@Hoffman8: Makes sense! Thanks

PPC Hero: Alright, time to wrap up today’s #heroview. Thank you @Mel66 for such great, insightful answers!

Melissa: My pleasure! This was fun!

PPC Hero: You can find the transcription of today’s #heroview on our blog, ppchero.com (the link will be tweeted). Thanks again to everyone!

Okay. Take a deep breath. It’s going to be alright.

Managing a large PPC account can be a daunting task, but luckily, we have three of our PPC experts here to help. In this in-depth video, Robert Boyd, Jessica Niver, and Bethany Bey walk you through the different ways to organize and strategize large accounts, and in the process, answer these questions:

*How can I organize my account around both products/services AND my different demographics?

*How can I avoid overlap and keyword duplicates?

*Is competition between ad groups a bad thing?

*How often should I make changes?

*How can I plan ahead for the amount of data I’ll receive?

*Is managing a large PPC account really that much different than managing a small one?

So if you’re just starting up a large account for the first time, or have a big PPC mess on your hands, we’ve got just the help you need.

Transcript

Introduction

Jessica Rooney (JR): Hello and welcome to PPCHero’s video blog, brought to you by Hanapin Marketing. Today we’re going to be talking to you about large PPC accounts, and we’re going to be giving you advice straight from the mouths of our expert PPCers. All three of the account supervisors and account executives we have talking to you today have accounts that are large in terms of their spend, their client, and also their AdWords structure, so campaigns, keywords, etc. So, as they answer questions based on organization, strategy, and advice, their answers will be well-rounded and applicable to your account needs. So thank you for joining us, and stay tuned for a very in-dept account for how to deal with large PPC accounts.

Account Structure, Maintenance, and Overlap

JR: So when you have a large account in terms of the actual size, like the number of products offered or the number of components, do you find that generally you divide or organize the account around products and services, or around audiences? And if you do both, is there a way to keep it separate, or is there a lot of overlap?

Rob Boyd (RB): Yeah, I guess the short answer is: both. So you do want to have it separated by products and services. That’s just best practices, right?

Jessica Niver (JN): The spend of the account doesn’t really dictate how much division it needs. How many products and services, and how many audiences it has, really determines what you need to structure it like.

RB: But you may run into a situation where the products and services are the same, but you’re selling those products and services to two totally different marketplaces.

JN: So for mine, they have a decent number of services, and they’re targeting different audiences, so I try to set up a structure where each product and service is in a different campaign. But then you also target different audiences in different campaigns, because that’s the level you can do more detailed audience targeting. Like, I’m not going to put all of mine…like if I’m selling women’s shoes, I’m not going to put all of my high heels into the same campaign if they’re targeting…if one’s high heels for strippers, and one’s high heels for business women. Right? Like I can’t put them in the same campaign because they’re different demographics.

RB: Every audience is going to have different…and especially with the ad copy, that’s a big one too. Your ad copy needs to speak to the desired audience. You may have a nearly identical ad group in a CEO centered campaign versus an everyday consumer campaign, and you need to write your ad copy that’s going to speak to those people in different ways. Like a business decision maker, they’re going to be thinking more about the bottom line, like what does this do to improve my business, where as an end user might be buying on passion, or making a quick decision, or “hey that’s really cool, I want that.” So yeah, it’s important to segment things, I think ad copy number one, but also there’s going to be some overlap in the keywords, but there’s definitely going to be some keywords that are unique to each.

JN: I think that if your demographics are different enough, you might get more value out of separating them, and having some competition between those two campaigns, and determining which works better for certain products or certain keywords, than just saying “well, you know, these are going to overlap, and I want to have the same keyword in both, but I want to target to all of them, so which one do I put it in?” Like, the ads are going to be different, you need to maybe just try to reduce the competition as much as you can, but understand that duplicate keywords aren’t good, and you shouldn’t have them. But testing and allowing keywords in different campaigns to compete to determine where something really should be…I don’t think is necessarily the worst thing. It’s just that if you have a large account that can get out of hand really quickly.

Bethany Bey (BB): There’s 20,000…over 20,000 keywords in our account. And when you pause a keyword, sometimes it will be hard to remember why you paused it because there are so many, and when you go to create a new ad group and you add keywords that can be difficult too because then you may add one thing that’s not in there that may be in a different ad group that you didn’t think about, so you need to definitely have to make sure you’re not adding duplicates into your account. With these large accounts with 20,000 keywords, there’s rarely a keyword that hasn’t been searched already. And I think that you get to a point with larger accounts where you go to do keyword research and you’re like “I really can’t find”… you’re struggling to find keywords. So something to do is look at the keywords you already have, and just see if there are a lot that haven’t done anything, and do you really need them turned on right now if they haven’t done anything. Because I think there are a lot of keywords someone might have added because they think that it might do something in the future, or is that the right approach to take, or should you wait until you know it’s going to benefit your account? I think that’s two different strategies.

JN: So, that’s basically what I’m saying. Yes, there’s competition. Sometimes, the audiences are so different that it’s worth having a little bit of competition and overlap to segment them and get better performance from that testing. Like, you test the segmentation and determine who performs better than just trying to lump everybody together and assume that, you know, you’re going to be running this one keyword, and however it does, it does. Otherwise you should reduce competition by geotrageting differently, or targeting a different demographic. People probably don’t use negative keywords enough to eliminate some of the overlap they have – the only way to eliminate it is not to geogtarget it in two different ways. You can also stop your ads for showing for different things. So anyway, yes, it’s probably more value to separate them than to worry too much about duplication, because there are other ways to stop it.

Strategy

JR: Do you find that because you do have a lot of data you have to monitor it more frequently?

RB: Absolutely. You know, if you have an account that spends thousands and thousands of dollars a day, and you just don’t pay attention to it…or maybe you make a change and you don’t act on that change or test the change for a few days…that’s lots of money. We have a responsibility to our clients to always know where their money is being spent.

BB: I try to get into all my accounts every day, but with the larger accounts, you have to actually do something every day, like sometimes I look into an account, it’s running okay, maybe make a few changes; but with a larger account, something can happen so quickly that your spend increases drastically on a certain keyword that hadn’t been performing for the last month, and now it’s getting a ton of clicks, and so you have to go in and make more changes that you do on accounts every day.

RB: Part of the other challenge of it is, that small changes can have such a large effect. You know, if you…and testing happens faster. So if you make a change, no, for example. If you have a small account, maybe you make a change, and you can’t make a decision on that change for a month because you need the data to collect, because it’s slow moving, not a lot of clicks, and you need to have statistical relevancy. Well, on a small account that may take a month, right? On some of my larger accounts, I can generate that data in an hour. So it’s a balance between…well, is that hour snapshot statistically relevant? No, it’s still not, because it’s still only one hour of one day. There are so many situational aspects that could have gone into it, why that change may have performed better or worse, but you do need to be careful of it.

JN: Not being too reactive is important because day-by-day data is not necessarily always valid. You have to consider longer term trends. Like, if this ad performed better today, and that’s statistically valid, according to the amount of traffic you received, is there also a Monday versus Wednesday difference in performance? Is there a weekend versus weekday difference? Is there, you know, a longer term difference that I’m not accounting for by making decisions on a day-by-day basis? So you can’t be fooled by your large traffic numbers into reacting to things that might not exist.

BB: Trying to find the balance I think with larger accounts, because there is so much stuff going on, and there is so much you want to do, so you go in there and you make a lot of changes, but then, you know, performance increases, but then you’re like “well, why did performance increase, I did 10 different things in the last week.” But something that I do like is that when you try something out or test something, results come fairly quickly. So you can maybe let a certain campaign run for a week and see the results from it, where in a smaller account you have to let it run for a month before you see any significant results. So, with larger accounts, it’s trying to find the balance between letting things run long enough to see the results, and making sure you’re making those changes.

RB: So what I tend to do is…the longer I’ve been managing an account, the more I have a feel for it. We make decisions based on the numbers, but you can have a sense of how the account is going to react. So I know that on some of the high spend accounts that I’ve been working with for months and months, that what the expected change is, and after a few days maybe, I can make a decision on it, and more often than not, I make the right decision based on the data. And the change you make after that tells you if you made the right decision. Did the account improve or decline?

JN: You need to develop your ability to think of strategy for a large account because, like I said, any change you do make will have an impact really quickly, so you need to kind of have a strategy where “I’m going to grow this account by doing this.” If it doesn’t work you need to react very quickly, so you need to lay out a plan in advance for “if this happens I’m going to… If this happens I’m going to…” And know what you’re going to do, because otherwise in an account that changes quickly, it can be kind of hard to think on your feet.

BB: I actually started thinking ahead and thinking “Okay if this doesn’t work and I have to pause this, do I have another campaign that I can turn on to replace it?”

RB: Having a strategy is super important because if an account is spending thousands over thousands of dollars a day, you need to have a plan going into it. If you turn it on and all this data starts coming back at you, and you’re not within goal metrics, it’s not going to leave a positive taste in the client’s mouth. Like if we didn’t already have some type of expectation of how this thing is going to start, kick off, or if it’s bad, turn around, or if it’s okay, how we’re going to improve it.

Advice

JR: What advice you would give someone who has never worked on an account before?  What’s your top advice to get started?

JN: Don’t forget everything that you’ve done in smaller accounts, and just, pay attention to it really, really often. The principles aren’t that different, it’s just that things can change really quickly. I really don’t think the principles are that different. You need to eventually need to be thinking about it in a different way if your account is so large and growth oriented that you constantly need to be doing big things to grow it, like that’s different. But I don’t think people should be freaked out about big accounts. All the same principles apply, like in terms of good management initially. I think initially while you’re getting familiar with a big account you need to pay a lot of attention, make sure things are going as expected. I think that sometimes moving from accounts where things move slowly – again, nothing moves that slowly in PPC – but in an account that’s spending you know, like $200 a day versus $4,000 versus $10,000 a day, I think that people don’t always expect to have to go into the account and react as frequently as you do when there’s a lot of traffic in your account.

BB: I think the best advice is to talk to the client. Because you might think “well this is the audience I’m targeting,” but if they’re the client, they know their target market, so make sure you talk to them and get all the information so that you can start focusing on which group of people you’re targeting and which keywords work best for them. So talk to the client first before you just go in and start, saying “oh, I think this keyword will work” or “I think this one will work.”

RB: So that would be my biggest piece of advice is just know the client, know the product or service, know what the goal is, make sure you have very well defined metrics – performance metrics, and have a plan before you flip the switch because you don’t want surprises. They’re going to happen, but you should be at least be prepared for the potential of…what the potential’s going to be. If you’re so far outside of your range then, I mean if you just go into something hastily and make some decisions and turn it on, and you’re just so far out, it’s really hard to backpedal from that. So, that’s my advice.

Thank you for tuning into Hanapin Marketing’s Video Blog! For more news and information about the pay per click industry, check out our blog at PPPHero.com, and our Twitter account, PPC Hero.

Thank you to everyone who participated on Twitter this past week. Stay tuned for more Heroviews coming your way soon!

May 19, 2011

PPC Hero: Hi everyone and welcome to today’s #heroview starring special guest, Matt Umbro!

Matt: Hello everyone, looking forward to talk some PPC!

PPC Hero: There will be some time at the end for any questions and/or comments you might have for Matt. Let’s get started!

PPC Hero: Let’s start with an easy question. What is your background in PPC?

Matt: I graduated from college in May, 2007 and was hired by Pixel Media to help run SEM campaigns.  I quickly realized my affinity for PPC and by March 2008 I earned my Adwords certification. The next year I started theppcblog.com and have been blogging ever since. During my career I’ve worked with clients in several industries helping them to achieve their PPC goals.

PPC Hero: Excellent! With that experience, are there any key metrics that you look at when developing a lead generation strategy?

Matt: First off, I help clients determine what will count as a lead, whether it be a contact us form submission, purchase, whitepaper download, or something else. I then speak to clients about reasonable target numbers and ask questions such as: How many leads would you like to see per month? What is your target CPA (how much are you willing to pay per lead)? A good baseline is to ask these questions in comparison to other marketing mediums. One metric I pay close attention to is conversion rate as this metric tells you exactly how many clicks are turning into conversions, which is very powerful. For this metric landing page optimization is key. I try and stress that all of these metrics are important and can be achieved by consistently honing the PPC campaign from text ad and landing page testing to efficient bidding and smaller items (but equally as important) such as negative KWs.

PPC Hero: How does your lead generation strategy differ between large and small budget campaigns?

Matt: Generally larger budget campaigns have more leeway when it comes to lead nurturing. In other words, larger budget campaigns can offer a whitepaper or webinar download in exchange for contact information.  The sales cycle isn’t immediate and these leads can be nurtured over time. Smaller budget campaigns don’t always have this luxury, thus the conversion should be a contact us submission or an actual purchase, allowing the opportunity to be manifested in a shorter amount of time. I often use the analogy of sports with smaller and larger market teams. Both compete on the same playing field, but smaller budgets have to be that much more efficient to realize their PPC goals.

PPC Hero: Taking this a step further, does your lead generation strategy differ between the search and display networks? How?

Matt: It really depends on the industry and the specific placements. I tend to find companies offering PDF/webinar downloads on highly targeted industry sites have good conversion rates. Ecommerce is different as the conversion is generally a purchase and visitors aren’t necessarily looking to buy. In both cases you have to draw attention to your ad, but especially in ecomm you really have to stand out and get the visitor in the buying mindset.

PPC Hero: How do your lead-gen tactics for mobile differ from your approach for traditional PPC advertising?

Matt: Most clients don’t have mobile enabled sites, but I still want them to play in the mobile space. In mobile campaigns I will turn on call extensions and check off the call-only format. This way the phone number is the only clickable link so searchers can call, but not go to the non-mobile optimized site. I still use the targeted KWs in the ads, but my call to action includes calling the company directly, ie: “Call for rates” or “Call to speak with a specialist.” Additionally, my KW pool is generally smaller as mobile users crave quick searches and results, therefore longer tailed terms aren’t always necessary

PPC Hero: Let’s say a few keywords in your account are driving leads, but with high CPL’s. How would you diagnose this?

Matt: I would speak with the client and determine what an appropriate CPL is. Especially with B2B campaigns, a CPL of $300 might be OK because the potential revenue could be $50K. I would also ask the client which leads are turning into legitimate opportunities. Some KWs may have great CPLs, but aren’t turning into opportunities. To get a full picture your client must tell you what happens with these leads. For further information please check out this blog post, http://bit.ly/d8fpA3.

PPC Hero: Have you used Google’s Conversion Optimizer? Have you found it to be accurate and/or helpful?

Matt: I have used the tool and haven’t been too impressed. Not to say that you won’t see similar results if you use it, but I’d rather set my own bids to influence conversion optimization, not Google.

PPC Hero: How do you combat the traditionally low conversion rate of display ads?

Matt: I’ve actually seen display ads provide good conversion rates, sometimes approaching (and even surpassing) those in the search network. Succeeding in the display network comes down to putting your ads on highly relevant sites and grabbing the attention of those visitors. In making this statement I believe choosing your placements (managed placements) is a must in the display network.

PPC Hero: What techniques do you utilize with your landing pages in order to encourage more conversions?

Matt: Where to begin! Aside from making sure the targeted KW(s) are on the LP and the call to action is present, I try to include a clear headline, short & benefit driven copy (sometimes utilizing bullets), & a short form that only asks for necessary contact information (I realize “what contact info is necessary” is subjective, but generally the shorter the form the better conversion rate you will see). If available, I also include recognition logos (ie: BBB Accredited Business) and customer testimonials. I also include a phone number if applicable in order to make it easy for the visitor to call directly. Incidentally, our topic for #ppchat this week was landing pages!

PPC Hero: Landing pages are a hot topic J @Doppelpager also has a lot of great advice, tips, and how tos for landing pages.

Matt: Will make sure to start following!

PPC Hero: You mention Google’s Ad Sitelinks here: http://ppche.ro/iouIHH. Does this have an effect on lead generation results?

Matt: Absolutely! Sitelinks allow you to gives searchers additional, relevant links to click. Sitelinks allow you to take up more of the search real estate which is extremely beneficial when you consider how many links are on the page. The fundamental idea of sending users to the most appropriate LP is still in place, but you give users an option on general searches (ie: a query of “nike shoes” can show sitelinks for “mens shoes,” “womens shoes,” “kids shoes,” and “basketball shoes.”

PPC Hero: If you had to narrow it down to one thing, what is the most important thing to remember with lead generation?

Matt: Your clients must share with you what happens to the leads garnered through the PPC campaign. Knowing that a certain KW garners 2/3 of the campaign conversions a month or that conversion rate has increased for 3 straight months is wonderful to know, but only half of the equation. You need to know which leads turned into opportunities and cross reference with the data in the campaign to truly determine what is and isn’t working (and ultimately allow clients to see positive ROIs).

PPC Hero: #ppcchat has been very successful recently. What is the primary goal you hope to achieve through those discussions?

Matt: I hope to bring the PPC community together to discuss topics that we deal with everyday, from text ad writing to researching negative KWs. Not everyone can go to conferences or take classes so #ppcchat is a way for industry professionals to chat on a weekly basis and learn new ideas. #ppcchat also allows you to bounce your thoughts and opinions off others. I know I’ve already learned some new ideas! For those interested, you can read more about #ppcchat here http://bit.ly/m532nA. Also, many thanks go out to James Svoboda of www.webranking.com (@Realicity) who helps with the chats by writing up the weekly Streamcaps. #heroview

PPC Hero: And finally, what is the biggest mistake marketers make when setting up conversion tracking?

Matt: Not creating individual conversion codes for each conversion. If you have 5 separate forms where visitors sign up for different downloads make sure you identify what each conversion is. The more specifics you can report the better you can optimize the campaign.

PPC Hero: Great answers, Matt! We’re about out of time, but are there any questions/comments/concerns the audience has for Matt?

• @Jessica_Cates: Any suggestions for a sudden drop in convs.? I tried basic fixes & trying to implement adv stuff, but nothing’s worked
• Matt: Depending on industry/product, the drop could be due to seasonality. Might also want to double check con. tracking.
• @Jessica_Cates: Thank you J

PPC Hero: Well, that’s it for this heroview! Thank Matt for your great insight on PPC and lead gen!

Matt: Thank you as well. Looking forward to more PPC specialists talking about the industry!

PPC Hero: For everyone just tuning in now, a full recap of this interview will be on our blog, ppchero.com, later today.

PPC Hero: Thanks again Matt!  Join us again, PPCers for our next heroview!

Tim has a very impressive resume, which is one of the main reasons I picked him for an interview. He’s worked with companies like American Express, Sony Music, Honda, Coach, COMP USA, Universal Studios and much more.  But what really drove me to this interview was Tim’s presentation at the 2008 PPC summit in Los Angeles. His presentation opened up many ideas for me and others when it comes to testing your landing pages.  What I walked away with was a copy of Tim’s book, Landing Page Optimization available on Amazon.com, and a plethora of ideas for testing my own landing pages to increase traffic and sales for my clients.

It would be wise for you to read this interview and write down as many ideas as you can for testing your own landing pages. And oh yea, don’t forget to buy Tim’s book!

1.  Tim, for those who haven’t read your book yet, can you tell us what the number one mistake is people make when it comes to testing their landing pages?

Too much clutter – you have to have a singular focus and discipline and be very clear about what the desired conversion action is on your landing page. Everything else should be de-emphasized or ruthlessly eliminated.

2.  What would you say is the appropriate time frame to test new content on your landing page is before deciding whether it worked or not?

Our tests usually run a few weeks. You should at least run one full week to get rid of time-of-day and day-of-week biases. But the real answer is that you should wait until you have a high statistical confidence in your answer. In other words decide how sure you want to be that you have found something better (95% for example) and wait until you reach that confidence level. It is hard to predict the exact amount of time because it depends on how much better your new version is than your original. If you double the conversion rate, you will not have to wait that long. But if you only find a 5% improvement you will have to collect data for much longer to make sure that it is not a short-term lucky streak (like flipping a coin five times and having it come up heads each time).

3.  You mention that when testing your own landing pages your ideas or opinions can often be wrong.  Do you feel there are best practices per business category or is every business different in its own way when it comes to what works and what doesn’t?

Each business is different because of it goals, cost structure, product offerings, brand strength, and online traffic sources. So nothing works universally. That is why you have to test on an ongoing basis and can’t simply copy your competitor’s landing pages.

4.  I think a lot of people out there feel they don’t have time to test or it’s just not that important. In your opinion, just how important is it to constantly keep testing even if you feel things are going well?

You should always be testing something. It is possible to improve a page a lot and then run out of good ideas for what to test next. But you should then move on to another important page on your site.

5.  We feel at times in order to see a large result you have to make a large change. Do you follow this way of thinking? Or do you recommend making smaller changes at one time?

Small changes can have a big impact. We increased conversions 58% on a lead form just by changing the title from “Free Quote Request” to “Instant Quote”. On the other hand we have tested completely redesigned pages against each other and gotten even bigger increases. So there is no right answer – it really depends on your risk tolerance and the amount of work you are willing to do upfront without any guarantee of results.

6.  Is it best to only do A/B testing so you know exactly what worked and what didn’t?

I am not a big fan of what I call “after the fact meaning making”. It is really hard to tell why something worked – so drawing conclusions can be a dangerous business. Was it your button color or its contrast with everything else on the page? You may never know. It keeps people from testing the same ideas in another test – they assume that they already know “the answer” even though the context and audience are different.

7.  In your presentation I thought it was interesting when you asked who should design your landing page…marketing, president of the company, programmers, web designers….the answer being none of the above.  Your customers need to design your landing page. So how do you know exactly what your customers want or are looking for, or don’t like about your current landing page?

Try to test the impactful items on the page like headline, offer, call-to-action, sales copy, images, etc.  You don’t know what your customers will prefer so have a wide range of ideas to make sure you do not test what YOU prefer.

8.  When should one stop testing?

When you are out of good ideas and have not gotten meaningful improvement sin a few tests on the same page. At that point you should move on to another high-value page.

9.  I wrote a blog post on trust symbols and credibility logos based off your presentation.  How have you seen these items improve landing pages over time?

Transferring trust and credibility in the form of third party endorsements is always a good idea. This can mean same shopping seals, media mentions, client logos, or testimonials.

10.  I think what is even more important than just testing elements on your landing page is being able to review the data and analyze it before making a decision on what worked and what didn’t.  Is there a particular metric one should be looking for over another?

The metric depends on your conversion goal and could be revenue per visitor, form-fill rate, click-through to another page, or time-on-site depending on the conversion action. If you have multiple goals you have to assign a financial value to each one to make sure you are making the correct trade-off among them.

11.  What is the second step one should take to begin testing their landing page? (First step is reading your book!)

After reading my book they should set up a free Google Website Optimizer account and test the headline on their highest volume landing page in a simple head-to-head A-B Split test. This can be done in about 15 minutes.

Thank you Tim, for taking the time to answer our questions. I’m sure readers will benefit from this and hopefully start testing their own landing pages more often and more effectively!